ComplaintsforY&D Machine Shop Inc

• Initial Complaint

  04/02/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Bought a rebuilt cylinder head off of them on **** in 2023 and nearly a year and not even 5000 mi later, the head is no good. They do not provide a warranty and do not stand behind their work. I can no longer see the terms and conditions of the purchase as the **** listing has long since been removed, but I recommend you review any guarantees they make very carefully if you consider purchasing from them and do not make the same mistake as I did.Numerous issues presented themselves during the assembly phase :1. An odd coating was present on the machined surfaces that rubbed off, likely to hide all the dings and scratches. The car leaked profusely from the head after it was built.2. Several of the threaded holes had bad threads which pulled out as soon as you went to torque down a bolt.I made the mistake of proceeding with the build and accommodating on my end as I did not want to go through the hassle of returning this head and sourcing another one.At around 5000 mi in, the head gasket failed and coolant started entering cylinder 1. There was no overheat or user error condition. Upon disassembly, the heat tab was still present, yet the head was warped >0.005 in several places. The professionally built short block was still in mint condition and the block surface was perfectly flat. The head therefore likely came to me rebuilt in this condition, and unfortunately I did not think to inspect the flatness myself at time of purchase since I had no reason to believe that the head was decked poorly.The engine now needs a new head and I have a paperweight sitting on my bench because these people either do not know what they are doing or their intent is to make a quick buck off of an unsuspecting buyer. I would not recommend putting the integrity of your engine in the hands of these people.

  Business response

  04/18/2024

  ***** (*********************)  ordered **** item number  **************  on May 13, 2023 under **** user id ********.

  i have enclosed the messages that were sent to me through **** and the replies from our behalf.

  in short, as description reads on his item (enclosed) and all our cylinder heads we have listed on our store. We only offer a 30 warranty for normal use, customer took 10 months to inform us of his problem.

  item is out of warranty and some of the content that he wrote to us and to BBB does not match as he wrote to us about 3K miles and to BBB 5K miles and also on pictures he adds *****" and on BBB he describes *****" in difference.

  please read **** messages exchanged from buyer and seller before a judgement is decided as under our behalf, items warranty was 30 days from purchase and took him 10 months to complain about it. also buyer states item was defective from when received but decided to install anyways, that makes no sense as if item was bad, engine would not have worked properly right away. 

  also noted on his pictures is that he installed racing application head studs coming from the engine block to fasten down the head even more tightly than factory specifications so more turbo boost can be achieved for racing/off road applications. that alone also would void warranty under any machine shop across the *** due to engine is built to race.

  Thank you for your time

   

  Customer response

  04/19/2024

   
  Complaint: 21507694
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  1. A 30 day "warranty" can't really be considered a warranty by any reasonable person. That is a return policy, not a warranty. It would take nearly 30 days from date of purchase to even get the vehicle back on the road. It is standard for engine remanufacturers to provide a 1 year or 2 year warranty and based on the evidence provided, there was absolutely no abuse, abnormal operating conditions, nor any deviation from the assembly procedure per the manufacturer service manual. The engine clearly had a head gasket failure due to a defect in the cylinder head.

  2. Your noted "discrepancies" appear to attempt to discredit the claim, yet they bear absolutely no relevance to the issue at hand. I could do the math on my car's odometer and get you the EXACT mileage if it matters that much to you - however, for purposes of communicating the complaint, "around" 3000 or 5000 miles tells the same message - that the cylinder head failed VERY prematurely due to a defect. As for the warpage amount, I took your "advice" to obtain a precision ground straightedge to confirm my complaint and yes, the warpage is even greater than the *****" that was initially communicated. Even greater than the *****" I subsequently communicated, as a matter of fact. The head warpage is terrible, while the block, which I had machined by a reputable machine shop, is as straight as an arrow.

  3. Your claim the usage of head studs voids your "warranty", yet you once again fail to establish any point of relevance to the defect in question. The engine comes turbocharged from the factory and the *** head bolts are well capable of handling the engine's demands. With a rebuild and wanting to not cut corners, rather than use torque-to-yield fasteners, I elected to go with a more reliable, consistent manner of clamping the head to the block. If anything, usage of head studs would've helped prevent this failure had it not been such a gross defect.

  In summary, this response is rejected due to no substance pertaining to disproving that this was indeed a defect caused by the seller and the refusal to offer any realistic form of warranty despite claims of the degree of workmanship you provide.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *********************

  Business response

  04/25/2024

  As listed on listing, warranty is 30 days. when buyer purchases or orders item, buyer is agreeing to the terms of warranty. if buyer does not like the warranty being offered or did not read warranty information, it is not sellers fault, buyers are not forced to order or purchase items from sellers. 

  if buyers are not happy with terms of warranty being offered by any company after reading the full listing before ordering/purchase, then buyers should not purchase/order items from those sellers or company.

  buyer should only order/buy from a seller that buyer agrees on sellers terms and warranty. 

  Cylinder head is warped from uneven heat range since coolant/antifreeze was entering one chamber and causing a disbalance of temperature on engine causing to warp cylinder head.

  By using cylinder head studs, engine is being modified so it can be turbo boosted beyond factory allowance/tolerances set by ***** factory specifications. that will cause engine to fail and highly possibly crack piston cylinder sleeve that will allow coolant/antifreeze to enter combustion chamber and cause that effect and warp cylinder head .

  installing cylinder head studs or any performance modifications voids cylinder head warranty as listed on listing. Buyer is responsible for reading full item description before ordering item. When buyer places order, buyer is agreeing with terms of warranty offered. 

  buyers can easily ask for a return within the 30 days if not happy or changed mind.

  our remanufactured cylinder heads offered by this company are triple tested for quality and re assurance, cylinder heads are machined true straight, there is no margin of error that our Italian made resurface machine will cause to cut/shave anyway but straight as it sits/mounts on perfectly flat 0 degree surface clamped down with machines accessories. there is no way that our machine can shave a cylinder head warped or crooked, its impossible to do as machine only shaves via set measurements that are locked in on every pass if needed. 

  on my **** store i have no complaints on quality or workmanship on anything i have sold to buyers. we only have one negative feedback from customer that called in to cancel order they had placed and did not let the original buyer/individual from their company know. so original person who placed order was not informed that order was cancelled by his own employee and left us a negative by mistake. 

  i also noticed that buyer who is placing this complaint on our company has already left us a bad ****** review weeks ago and from his history has also left many other companies bad reviews. 

   

   

  Customer response

  04/26/2024

   
  Complaint: 21507694
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  Complaint response makes an attempt to explain the issue but still lacks technical basis, and the attempted explanation of coolant entering the combustion chamber causing the head warpage is just plain wrong. Coolant doesn't enter the combustion chamber until the seal is compromised, and wouldn't cause a head to warp after the fact as it doesn't have any bearing on the normal temperature variations within an operating engine. Let's get back to basics.

  1. I don't need to hear more about the claims of the 30 day "warranty". Once again, that is a return policy. The nature of this product makes it completely impractical to offer a warranty remedy for 30 days. How many miles do you think you can put on a vehicle in 30 days? And that's not even considering the significant downtime associated with the purchase - a week to ship, a week to do the teardown and rebuild, so not even close to 30 days. I suppose this was a good learning experience. Buyer beware, right? The replacement cylinder head will instead be from a reputable shop that stands behind their work with a 1 year warranty.

  2. Causes of the defect: I will keep it high level but still be thorough since it appears the message isn't quite getting through and being understood.

  - Overheating: ruled out, which we both seem to agree on. The operating conditions at time of failure were normal and the heat tab is still present at the coolant outlet, which theoretically would be the hottest area.

  - Assembly error: ruled out. I'm extremely familiar with these engines and followed the engine workshop manual along with any manufacturer recommendations for aftermarket parts to the letter. 

  - Severe operating conditions: this is what you appear to be trying to fall back on with the repeated claims of using head studs voiding your "warranty". I don't need to hear more about the same claims again and again. Usage of head studs simply allows for higher and more consistent clamping force, which once again, would've prevented the issue had it not been such a gross defect. Sure, you can throw in more boost with head studs because of that, but using head studs in itself has absolutely no relation to racing the engine or taking it to its limits. You can race an engine on its factory head bolts, or you can overbuild an engine to be reliable and drive it on the street with head studs. How can you even make that claim with zero evidence? As I mentioned, the operating conditions were normal and well within what this engine is rated for when the head failed. If head studs actually pointed to a nonstandard use of the engine or themselves would've caused any issues, I think I would've taken the 5 minutes to remove them before taking pictures?

  In summary, the engine was rebuilt and operated well within normal parameters, and it is clear that this head was purchased with a compromised mating surface, which caused the head gasket to fail within 5000 miles of operation. I'm simply hoping for some sort of recourse based on this concrete evidence, but yes, it can simply be ignored and a response regurgitating that you have a 30 day "warranty", as has been done so far.

  Oh, and I'm not sure what relevance my ****** review has in this inquiry. I post reviews when I have an exceptional experience, or one that utterly fails to deliver. I have my fair share of giving 5 star reviews (go ahead and double check my profile), and it looks like your ****** page has its fair share of 1 star reviews. And maybe your ****** search would've told you that this engine is well-suited to handling power, as you now know that it was turbocharged from the factory. Head gasket failures are virtually unknown on this platform.

  
  Sincerely,
  
  *********************

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