ComplaintsforKelly Krew Aussies

• Initial Complaint

  03/08/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Customer Service Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Kelly Krew Aussies (owned by ****** and *******************************) is misleading with their business practices and used deceptive advertising. They do not allow paying customers to have a say in which puppy they get -- that is not the industry standard, and they did not disclose this before I paid them a deposit (not on their website, over email, over the phone, or in their contract).When it was revealed to me that they use a forced match system, I asked for a refund of my deposit because I paid under the false pretenses that I would be able to select my puppy (within reason). I attempted multiple times to resolve this directly with the merchants, but ******************************* became hostile towards me and they have refused to refund me.After I told them that I would be filing a formal complaint with my bank, they changed their website in an attempt to cover this up. Screenshots of everything are attached in the detailed timeline of events.****** and ******************************* initially only had three deposit holders for nine puppies, and there were still multiple puppies remaining at the end of February -- they reveal in public ******* videos that they did not receive nearly as much income as they expected, and it is clear that they were so focused on not losing additional income by refunding my deposit, even though they were in the wrong by not being transparent about their forced match system.I would like a refund of my $1,500 deposit as an immediate resolution.There is a detailed timeline of information, as well as all supporting documents, in the attached pdf.

  Business response

  03/10/2023

  Our communication with **************** began on 12/31/2022 after she filled out our Puppy Application. The beginning paragraph in the application states: "Kelly Krew Aussies Puppy Application - Thank you so much for your interest in a Kelly Krew Aussie. By filling out this application, this gives us a bit more information about you, your lifestyle and activity level to help us have a better idea of the perfect puppy for you. We match our puppies to families based on their temperament score from the Volhards Puppy Aptitude test and their compatibility for lifestyle and home activity. Please be honest in your answers as we take puppy placement seriously.To better assist in the application process, please be sure to have THOROUGHLY READ our PUPPIES tab on the website that covers commonly asked questions, including price, whats included, how our puppies are raised and more!"
  We sent her an email stating: "Good Evening!
  Congratulations on the birth of your new puppy, even though you don't know which one yet! Thank you so much for trusting us as your breeder; we are extremely excited to raise this litter and specifically raise your new best friend. Attached is our puppy contract - please read over it to ensure we are in agreement and understanding of what is expected and guaranteed with your puppy. We require that the deposit for your puppy be paid by January 7th. The amount for the deposit is $1,500 and can be paid via Venmo, Zelle, or Cashier's check. The deposit, as also stated in our contract, is non-refundable though it is transferable should there be a reason you are unable to get a puppy from this litter. Please let us know as soon as possible how you would like to proceed with your deposit payment. If you have any questions or concerns, we are more than happy to help and look forward to hearing from you! Thank you again and welcome to the Kelly Krew *************! **** & Jordyn Kelly"
  She replied asking if she could call us - we had a phone conversation on 1/5/2023 where we answered several of her questions and discussed our program and methods further. On 1/6/2023, she confirmed payment options and sent over the initial $500 on 1/7/2023. She did not return the contract signed and never signed anything. The contract is attached as one of the PDFs. On 1/9/2023, she sent a text stating: "Also is there a specific weekend day that works best for y'all if I want to come down and meet the puppies before they're ready to go home? Thinking mid February when they turn 6 weeks old maybe?" On 1/16/2023, I sent a text to a group chat which included ****************, stating: "We also scheduled their appointment for February 13th to get their DHPP so we can have visitors and take them places to socialize after that!"**************** and another client both 'hearted' the text. On 1/22/2023, I sent a text to the same group text: "Less than 4 weeks until you find out which puppy is yours!" Again, **************** and two other clients 'hearted' the text. On 2/11/2023 she sent a text stating: "Hi ******! Would it be ok if I drove down to meet the pups next Sunday the 19th?" My reply to her was, "Hey! Absolutely! Then you could meet your puppy!" 
  On 2/17/2023, I texted the link to the Volhards Puppy Aptitude test to the group so the clients could review the process. We took the puppies for the testing 2/18/2023 with the intent to determine which puppy would go to each home after the testing was completed. On 2/18/2023 I texted ***** specifically and if she was available for a phone call and that we had a choice for her to make. During our phone conversation on 2/18/2023, we explained that we had 2 female puppies for her to choose from. When we told her which puppies, one she had previously mentioned she did NOT want to be matched with, she asked if she could have her refund given back to her. We explained it was non-refundable but it could be transferred to another litter, to which she asked if she could call us back later that evening. I sent her a text at 6:04pm that same day stating, Hey, I do want you to be aware that we have another family waiting on a phone call as their puppy is contingent on your decision. I would appreciate a decision by 10pm. At 10:41pm, I received a text from ***** saying, I just got my phone - I can give you a call tomorrow morning I did not hear back from ***** until 11:36am when she called me. We had a brief conversation where she stated she wanted us to make an exception and return her deposit as she claimed she was unaware of the matching system we use prior to her placing her deposit. She claimed she had called several breeders across the country and asked what their methods were and stated that none of them said they did not allow their families to pick their puppies. She stated that what we did was not the industry standard, to which I agreed. We are aware our practices are different and that we do not follow the same procedures that most breeders do. I asked that I call her back and my husband, ****, did so using my phone at 12:22pm. We recorded this conversation as we felt it would be beneficial considering the tone **************** had been using with us in the previous phone conversation where she threatened to take us to small claims . **** confirmed that she was not happy with the picks we gave her, nor did [she] want to move forward with waiting on a different litter because of the process being the same to which she replied, yes. He then confirmed that she wanted the non-refundable deposit back to which she stated, Yes, I would like there to be an exception made being that I wasnt made aware of the match system before I signed the contract. Again, we never received a signed contract from her, however, I have attached our contract as one of the PDFs so you may review that it does state: This deposit is non-refundable under any circumstance, however, it is transferable should you decide to wait until another litter is born. **** then stated, I am not going to be able to do the refund on the deposit, I know that that is not what both parties want but if youve got to go forward with the small claims court or whatever your plan is, thats totally fine but after looking over previous conversations that have been had, it does appear, to me anyway, that the matching was understood. To which **************** responded, It was not made aware to me before I signed the contract and before I gave the deposit, that is factually just what happened. Again, we did not receive a signed contract when **************** sent her deposit. 

  Prior to editing our website to include better verbiage so that misunderstanding does not occur in the future, our website stated: Social and balanced is what we strive for in our puppies as well as trainability and rely on Volhards Puppy Aptitude test completed at 7 weeks to help us determine the best home for each puppy. After **************** addressed that the website was misleading, I changed it to state: Social and balanced is what we strive for in our puppies as well as trainability and rely on *******'s Puppy Aptitude test completed at 7 weeks to help us determine the best home for each puppy. We match puppies to homes rather than allow families to pick their puppy. This is done when the puppies are 7 weeks old after evaluations are completed by us, the breeder. Gender preference can be considered, however, not prioritized over the puppy's needs for a home. This was not done to cover up the situation but to prevent this situation to reoccur in the future. 
  ****************** claim in her complaint that she would be able to select her puppy (within reason) but was denied is false as we gave her the option between two puppies or waiting for another litter. 
  We raise working and companion ********** Shepherds, a herding breed that can require a specific home and the need that the home provides adequate exercise and stimulation in order to live a healthy life. **************** stated in her application that she was single and living in an apartment though worked from home. The litter of puppies which she applied for was bred with the purpose to produce working offspring. The reason why we complete the Volhards Puppy Aptitude test, as well as an instinct test using our own livestock, is so that we may know which home would be best for each puppy. Out of the four females in the litter (**************** had requested a female puppy) two of the puppies scored extremely well as potential working dogs as well as dogs who needed a more experienced home and extensive training. Given the living situation and lifestyle of ****************, we did not feel comfortable placing either of these puppies with her. That said, we gave her the option between the other two females which then resulted in situation to which *************** now. 
  On 3/7/2023, I received a text from **************** stating: ******, Im about to file paperwork in small claims court and wanted to give you one final chance to refund my deposit before I submit everything. If and when you are held responsible, you will also be responsible for reimbursing me for all additional costs incurred on my end, which will include filing/notary/postal fees (around $150) and any other incidentals, including the cost of any time off I have to take to attend a hearing. I saw that all nine puppies were sold, so you presumably got the full $27k you were expecting from this litter. It would make everyones lives a lot easier if you would simply refund me my deposit. I genuinely would like nothing more than to be done with this and amicably part ways. If you still refuse, I will be moving forward. If I dont hear back from you by tomorrow at 12pm Ill be submitting my case. I did not respond and do not plan to respond to her further. I'm happy to provide any further information necessary to move forward.

  Customer response

  03/10/2023

   
  Complaint: 19554644
  
  I reject this response as a resolution for the following reasons:

  
  1) ****** and ******************** that their system of forced matches is not the industry standard. Therefore, they should have been explicit about this throughout the process.

  In their response above, they say that on 12/31/22, they emailed me saying To better assist in the application process, please be sure to have THOROUGHLY READ our PUPPIES tab on the website that covers commonly asked questions, including price, whats included, how our puppies are raised and more!" 

  This is true, and I did thoroughly read the Puppies tab on their website. However, as documented in my initial complaint in Article H, there was no clear information about their forced match system. We wait to do puppy picks until 7 weeks of age does not clearly describe their system -- again, ****** and **** acknowledge that its not industry standard. The common phrase, pick of the litter exists for a reason. I interpreted this as being some sort of standard system where paying customers have a reasonable and meaningful say in the process. In my experience and research, the standard process is usually something like -- the breeders get first pick if they want to keep any of the puppies, and then picks happen in order of payment. And yes, I did call breeders across the country to confirm with a variety of samples that this is typically the case. I am willing to provide this info directly to the BBB, but not with ****** and ******************************* in order to protect those other breeders. 

  Further, because ****** never explicitly talked through their forced match system with me before I put down the deposit, the possibility of a forced match system did not cross my mind. I asked ****** to send me a copy of my ****** application responses, and she wouldnt. ****** and **** state, ...we had a phone conversation on 1/5/2023 where we answered several of her questions and discussed our program and methods further. We did have a phone conversation on 1/5, and they explained part of her process to me, but they never discussed their forced match system. I asked her multiple times if there was anything else I should know about their process or anything else I should be aware of before making the decision to place a deposit. My notes from this conversation are in Article C of my initial complaint, along with a timestamp showing that I last made edits on 1/5/23. 

  To be clear once again -- had I known that I would not be able to reasonably pick my puppy, I would have never placed a deposit. Knowing, after the fact, that they struggled to find buyers for this litter, I suspect that they may have intentionally been vague and withholding during these initial conversations for fear that I would not place a deposit. 

  2) I never returned the signed contract stating deposits are nonrefundable. ****** and **** seem to be trying to use this fact against me, but the fact that I never signed the contract means that its not legally enforceable against me. 

  3) ****** and **** ultimately sold all nine puppies in this litter.

  In their response above, ****** and **** do not acknowledge the portion of my initial complaint where I explain how they struggled to sell all of the puppies, and outline their ******* videos where they admit that some people pulled out of this litter and their expected income was significantly less than they had planned for.

  ****** and **** ultimately sold all nine puppies in this litter and made the $27,000 they were expecting. My $1,500 deposit is additional money on top of that -- its not a situation where I took a spot from someone on the waiting list, and therefore prevented them from selling the remaining puppy that I would have received. They didnt have enough buyers to begin with and ultimately, they were able to sell all of the puppies. 

  Refunding my deposit would be an extremely simple solution -- I would appreciate if ****** and **** would explain, in their own words, why they are refusing to this simple solution, aside from just saying the deposit is nonrefundable or trying to distract from the fact that they were not clear and transparent with their forced match system, which they acknowledge is not industry standard. I believe they are trying to keep my money simply to improve their own finances.

  Lastly, I have never seen the file Jordyn and **** attached outlining the Volhard test, but regardless, this information about the test doesnt, in any way, prove that they were clear about their forced match system. 

  This is just another attempt to distract from the underlying issue, which is that they are refusing to refund my money, even though I did not sign a contract and they were not clear about their forced match system and to boot, they ended up selling all nine puppies. I would have filed a complaint regardless of that, but my point in stressing that is to emphasize that ****** and **** were ultimately not financially impacted by this -- I am the only one being financially impacted because of their lack of transparency, and at this point, they seem to be refusing to refund me for their own additional financial gain and/or because they dont want to admit that they should have been more transparent with their business practices, and perhaps they were intentionally vague because they were having lots of issues getting buyers for this particular litter. As shown in my initial complaint, their forced match system was never clearly outlined on their website or contract, and they failed to discuss it with me on the phone before I gave them $1,500.

  Sincerely,

  ***********************

  Business response

  03/13/2023

  There is no industry standard for raising, placing or selling dogs - if there were, backyard breeders and shelters would not exist. While **************** may have reached out to other breeders across the country who do not use the same process we do, I am happy to also provide the information of at least five breeders located in ******, ********, ********, ************* and just 30 minutes from ** here in ************** who use the same matching process we do. These are not all ********** Shepherd breeders either, but a variety of breeds. Its not my problem how other breeders raise or sell their dogs as this dispute is between us and ****************, not other breeders. Im not required to have the same processes as other breeders.
  
  
  My point of quoting our application was to emphasize that it states: We match our puppies to families based on their temperament score from the Volhards Puppy Aptitude test and their compatibility for lifestyle and home activity. Please be honest in your answers as we take puppy placement seriously. Im not sure how much more clearly that could have been phrased to be understood better. I also want to point out **************** repeatedly uses the term forced match when we did not force a match on her but rather gave her a choice. We gave her a choice between two puppies OR to have her deposit transferred to another litter. 
  
  
  ****************** accusations of us struggling to find buyers for this litter are not a valid point to this situation. We received multiple applications on the litter but it is at our discretion that not every applicant was a good match for this litter. We keep a waiting list and typically do not need to advertise our litters at all - this was our first litter that did not have families for every available slot within the first week of the puppies being born. I also want to add that **************** is our first client who has not understood the process, as we have placed 21 puppies using the process of matching prior to this litter. No other clients who placed deposits on this litter shared the same viewpoint as ****************. I want to also include that a client who previously purchased a puppy from us, purchased a second puppy from this litter, to add validity to the success of our matching process. What **************** states about the income from the litter is not true as the financials are not something that needs to be her business or of her concern. This has never been about the money exchanged but rather that **************** was not matched with whatever puppy she was hoping to be, or given the option to pick from all of the puppies. 
  
  
  We are not the only breeders who have a non-refundable deposit and state in multiple places that is it non-refundable under any circumstance. While **************** never returned the signed contract, her acknowledgement of not returning it implies she understood the requirement to do so and moving forward without it was an implied acceptance of the terms therein. Yes, refunding her deposit would have been simple, its the fact she bullied and threatened us over it rather than having a calm conversation is what has pushed the situation to where it is. 
  
  
  ****************** statement that she never saw the Volhards Puppy Aptitude document is not our fault but her negligence as it was sent in the same group text that she had been a part of since 1/7/2023. Said test is mentioned more than once on our website as well as mentioned in our application and contract and also discussed more in depth on our social media pages. If **************** had not understood the process that it involved, it was not due to our lack of being transparent on how we used the test nor the fact that we use the test at all. I want to also disclose information that after the final conversation with ****************, the next approved applicants thanked us for our transparency as they had never seen another breeder have everything mentioned and laid out on their website in the way we have. I would be happy to request a statement from them should you find it necessary to aid in this dispute.

  Customer response

  03/13/2023

  Complaint: 19554644
  
  I reject this response as a resolution for the following reasons:

  To begin, ****** contradicts herself when saying there is no industry standard with placing or selling dogs -- in her last response, she said, She (*****) stated that what we did was not the industry standard, to which I agreed.

  Regarding Jordyns point about giving me the choice between two puppies or waiting for the next litter -- one of the puppies was one that I had previously mentioned I did not want. ****** acknowledges this in her first response saying, When we told her (*****) which puppies, one she had previously mentioned she did NOT want to be matched with, she asked if she could have her refund given back to her. Given this, I did not have a meaningful choice in which puppy I was to get. I did not want to wait until the next litter because I was dissatisfied with their lack of transparency and did not want to continue doing business with Kelly Krew Aussies. In one of our final phone calls, I even tried to come to a compromise solution and asked her if I could have more of a say in which puppy I were to get should I wait until the next litter. ****** said no, that the process would be exactly the same. I say this to emphasize that I did try to compromise or find solutions to the situation without getting any other party involved.

  Regarding Jordyns point that [My] accusations of [them] struggling to find buyers for this litter are not a valid point to this situation. -- I disagree. This is important context when evaluating the situation as a whole. ****** also says, We received multiple applications on the litter but it is at our discretion that not every applicant was a good match for this litter. It would be helpful to see how many applications came in. I texted ****** twice and asked her to send me a copy of my application responses, and she would not. It would also be helpful to understand what made people good or poor applicants for this litter. ****** and her husband have always known I do not have children, live in an apartment, and work from home. I was clear that I was looking for a general companion pet and had no intentions of using my dog for working purposes. Its confusing to hear that this litter of puppies was bred with the purpose to produce working offspring. It also leads me back to my initial point that ****** and **** were struggling to find buyers for this litter -- in hindsight, based on what ****** has said, it doesnt seem like I should have even been accepted as a buyer for this litter if they were bred with the purpose of being working dogs. Its reasonable to suspect that perhaps they were willing to give a childless woman living in an apartment a working dog because they were struggling to find buyers -- and leads into my larger point that this is also why ****** was so adamantly against refunding my deposit given the situation. When I spoke to her on the phone about this, she still had four or five unsold puppies. 

  This also leads me to an additional point. ****** states in her last response, What **************** states about the income from the litter is not true as the financials are not something that needs to be her business or of her concern. First off, these are public videos that ****** and **** have chosen to share with the world. They go into extreme details about their monthly budgets and the financial earnings they receive from selling their litters of puppies. If the income about the puppies is not true, Im confused as to why she would lie about that on her own platform. Secondly, as I said earlier, this is critical context when evaluating the situation as a whole. Had ****** and **** been able to easily sell all nine puppies and/or had a waiting list of buyers who were eager and ready to take my spot, I believe they might have been more willing to refund me given the situation and part ways amicably since it wouldve been no skin off their backs.

  Please refer to page 4 of my initial complaint where I go into more details, but below are three key statements made by ****** in her ******* videos that I believe are important pieces of context.

  Of the seven families that we had ready and excited about this litter, we only had three go ahead and place their deposit we still have five spots available on our litter of puppies. Our income is not as high as we initially put for the month of January.

  Our goal for the month was to go ahead and sell four puppies and we did not quite make that goal. (Referring to February)

  This month we should be receiving $13,500 for puppies. (Referring to March) As I said in my last response, $13,500 is equal to $1,500 (half of the total cost/remainder of cost after the deposit) times 9 (number of puppies in the litter). This illustrates that they ultimately sold all nine puppies. Kelly Krew Aussies has also posted on their Instagram page that all nine puppies were sold.

  Regarding my knowledge/understanding of the Volhard assessment -- Id like to be clear that I did understand the test, but was not fully made aware that this assessment would be essentially the end all, be all for how their puppy picking/matching system played out. These two things are separate and should not be conflated. My point in saying that I had never seen that specific attachment ****** included in her response was simply to acknowledge that. I was aware of the Volhard assessment, but that doesnt change the situation as a whole.

  Regarding Jordyns statement that the next applicants applauded them for their transparency -- they changed their website almost immediately after our last phone conversation, as outlined in my initial complaint (Articles H and I). Their website is now explicitly clear, but it was not at the time when I gave them $1,500 for a deposit. 

  Finally, I would like to address two things ****** states in her response to emphasize one broad point. She states This has never been about the money exchanged and Yes, refunding her deposit would have been simple, its the fact she bullied and threatened us over it rather than having a calm conversation is what has pushed the situation to where it is.

  ****** admits here that she and her husband are refusing to give me a refund essentially for the sake of refusing -- out of stubbornness. I did, in fact, have a very calm conversation with ****** on the morning of 2/18 when she told me that there were two puppies left, including one that I had previously expressed I did not want (effectively leaving me with one puppy). ******* claims that I bullied her during this conversation are outright false. I explained where I was coming from -- that it was not made clear to me that I wouldnt have a meaningful choice in which puppy I was to get, and that was not something I was comfortable with. I detailed how when my family got my childhood dog, *****, we were able to go and meet all of the puppies and see which one we connected with the most. I explained to ****** that it didnt feel right -- from my perspective and for me personally -- to not be able to meet a puppy I was going to spend the next 10+ years with. I dont believe I said this during that conversation, but people spend hours and hours test driving cars, for example, before making the big decision to make a purchase, and I dont think it was unreasonable of me to expect and want to at least meet the puppies before. At the end of my conversation with ******, she said something along the lines of, So to be clear, you are asking for a refund and you do not want to move forward with the next litter. I confirmed, and she said something along the lines of, Ok, let me talk to my husband and well give you a call back. This conversation was not, in my mind, hostile on either end. 

  If anyone was being a bully in the situation, it was **** Kelly, who essentially tried to intimidate me into not leaving them poor reviews online, claiming he could *** me for slander. Going back to my earlier point that I tried to find a compromise and resolution independently -- even though I was obviously dissatisfied with this situation and their lack of transparency, I offered to just part ways completely amicably and not write any reviews if they would refund my deposit given everything.

  My final point regarding ******* claims of me bullying them -- I reached out to her over text last week saying, It would make everyones lives a lot easier if you would simply refund me my deposit. I genuinely would like nothing more than to be done with this and amicably part ways. I dont know a world in which reaching out, person to person, to once again try to resolve this independently could be considered bullying.

  In summary, ****** has made it clear that she and her husband are refusing to refund my money essentially for the sake of it. They have contradicted themselves numerous times, including in their written responses here, which supports my argument that they were, at best, confusing, vague, and indirect about disclosing crucial information about their business practices before I put down a deposit for a life-changing decision. They never explained their matching process to me directly, even when I clearly asked them if there was anything I should be aware of regarding their system or practices. As a result of everything, I am now the only person being financially impacted by this situation.

  I strongly believe that when you take a look at the situation as a whole, the fair and right solution is for ****** and ******************************* to refund my $1,500. 

  Sincerely,
  ***********************

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