ComplaintsforRetroFoam of Pittsburgh LLC

• Initial Complaint

  01/04/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Retro foam was contracted to insulate and seal from drafts 3 crawl spaces. They failed on one of them. Repeated visits by them did not solve the problem. On the last visit, Joey (the project manager) admitted that it would probably need to be completely redone. He said this in front of his workers Ron and Tyler. Repeatedly they have asked ME to diagnose what they did wrong, and I have been consistent and as helpful as I could, I am not the contractor. They also did damage to our lawn, our basement wall, and the HVAC equipment in the crawlspace. Finally, they stopped communicating from either the Pittsburgh franchise or the Owner in Michigan claiming to be confused and unable to understand what needs to be done. I have documented everything in writing and with pictures, however the size of the files are too large for this form, I could print them and mail them or email them one at a time as my computer skills are limited. Retro Foam knows I have a hearing defect, they know I work through text and mostly email, they have emailed me, they have my info.

  Customer response

  01/16/2024

  *********
  Attachments
  Sat, Jan 13, 5:55 PM (3 days ago)
  to me
  
  Doug L**** got back to us with a written statement. Doug is an experienced and skilled tradesman with a reputation for quality and integrity.
  
  **** *****
  Retro Foam claim

   

   

  The attached email supersedes the one from 1-5.

  
  Again, Eric goes over ground that has been covered over and over, claiming he needs to organize his plan. This is spurious, all he needs to do is dispatch a crew with the tools and materials necessary. Never once has he even intimated what his plans are, never once has he done anything to resolve this problem.
  This is not something requiring months of planning.
  I have in hand a complete list of all the necessaries, he has never broached the subject.
  

  **** *****

  

  Business response

  01/17/2024

  Since the initial complaint we have been in continued talks with *** ***** trying to work out a resolution. 

  Customer response

  01/20/2024

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
  

  Regarding how Retro Foam buried my HVAC in foam, I had this document relayed to me which indicates that their work was not only deficient in stopping the air infiltration but also not compliant with Pa. Building Codes. From further research I discovered the reason for the regulations: Duct work buried in foam is a condensation problem that will cause a mold infestation. 
  Attached is the relevant code as well as a layman's version. It's all logical and pretty obvious when you think about it. I find it interesting that an insulation contractor operating in Pa. does not know this.
  Before they sprayed one ounce of foam I told them to remove the ducts, instead they buried them.
  I told them the inspector would fail the work if they didn't.

  I thought I was supposed to make a statement as to why I rejected Retro Foams efforts but I could not find where I was to make my statement on the form, only a place to upload. Anyhow, here is my statement:
  

  I am dissatisfied because of the long delays I have experienced and still do not have a commitment from Retro Foam
  From Dec. 20 to Jan 20 I was subjected to repeated questions from Eric, which I answered repeatedly the exact same way I have since the beginning.
  Finally, this week Eric informs me that nothing will happen until Brandon comes to visit, why did it take a month for this is my question.
  So Brandon comes to visit and as he leaves he tells me it's all up to Eric what gets done.
  I do not consider this to be in any way productive.

  
  
  Regards,
  
  ***** *****

  

  Business response

  01/25/2024

  *** ***** filed a complaint with the Attorney General. We are working through that office at this time to hopefully resolve the complaint. Our initial response to that complaint is attached.

  If anything else is needed from our company for the BBB at this time, please let us know. 

  This letter is in response to ***************** the complaint from ***** ***** regarding RetroFoam of Pittsburgh.
  

  Our team is working very hard to assess *** *****’s current situation and concerns and then resolve them in the appropriate way. Several
  members of the RetroFoam team have either visited with *** ***** in person, spoken with him on the phone, or communicated with him via
  email. Unfortunately, it’s been difficult to come to an amicable resolution. We have had three different spray foam technicians out to *** *****’s
  house to look into his concerns. We have been unable to recreate the issues he describes. We are trying to do right by *** ***** but it’s been a
  difficult process.

  
  In accordance with our warranty, RetroFoam of Pittsburgh is agreeable to repair any damage that we caused to the lawn and to the wall of *** ******* property. We have offered to have a certified HVAC contractor go to the home and assess the situation. *** ***** has since had Vogt
  HVAC look at his HVAC system and they said it is not damaged. With that being the case, the HVAC is not an issue that needs to be
  addressed.

  
  The complaint resolution shared with us through your office says “RetroFoam comes back in a timely manager and fixes everything, including
  front crawlspace, and damage to lawn, wall and HVAC ducts”. The steps listed above would address each of those points.
  *** *****’s other complaint resolution option is “complete refund of all monies paid for material and labor for the front crawlspace and them to
  promptly arrange removal of their materials either by their labor or another contractor they hire; plus damaged to lawn, wall, and HVAC ducts.”
  That request is not reasonable, from our perspective. On a recent visit, our team noted that the crawlspace was holding at 50 degrees even
  while it was 30 degrees outside. The insulation we installed is doing the job it’s intended to do. We did note a small spot (less than two square
  inches in size) that we would need to seal in the crawlspace, but that spot would not cause the issues *** ***** has mentioned.

  We would appreciate the help of the Attorney General’s office in coming to an agreement with *** ***** on our next steps. To us, it makes the
  most sense for us to send a team to seal that two inch square spot in the crawl space, for us or *** ***** to arrange for repairs to the lawn and
  for us to cover the cost of that (with pre-approval by our team of the estimate), and for us or *** ***** to arrange for repairs to the wall (with
  pre-approval by our team of the estimate). As soon as we know who is responsible for which next steps and there is agreement on both sides,
  we will do what we are then tasked to do.

  
  Please let me know if you have any questions and what the next steps are in this process with your office.
  Thank you.
  Deanna C*******
  RetroFoam of Pittsburgh

  Customer response

  01/26/2024

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********* and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.We will address this paragraph by paragraph.
  Paragraph 1
  We are baffled by the assertion that RetroFoam is working hard. We do not consider one question a week
  on subjects already covered from Eric to be in any way diligent or effective in resolving the issue.
  Until last week Brandon was completely MIA in any communication.
  There has been no problem with amicability in any communication or action of ours that I can find.
  I had, at the very start, insisted on email or text; however there was one time when Brandon called that I
  spoke loudly due to my hearing loss. I only told him that I did not think it was the job of the customer to
  diagnose what he did wrong, I did not berate him. I never do business on the phone due to this disability.
  Ken and I worked together for hours fixing what they did; I planted new shrubs to replace what they
  ruined; I shoveled and patched lawn they destroyed; I helped Ken and provided tools to fix the crushed
  driveway pipe they drove off the edge of; I offered a ladder and a light to Joey when he showed up with
  nothing to work with, I wrote up a complete shopping list and a list of tools needed if we were to do it all
  ourselves, I'd characterize that as amicable. This last visit from Joey was when he admitted that the only
  way to fix it was to start all over again; this was witnessed by Ron and Tyler, when I mention this and
  my admonitions to Brandon to Eric, he is silent.
  There have only been two technicians: one, Joey, who did the whole job consisting of three crawl spaces
  wrong to start with and Ken, who was unable to fix the front one, because the problem was buried in
  foam. He simply had so much to redo on that visit with all three spaces needing work, the lawn and pipe
  work, the floor support piers that had to be rebuilt due to the spray team destroying them, that he wasn't
  able to make a full assessment in the front crawl space, I'm sure that if he had another day at it he would
  have got it all under control. Unfortunately he was leaving the next morning in a relocation. Finally, when
  Joey was here he felt the breeze of cold air; he saw the vapor barrier inflating with the wind; he even cut a
  hole in it to try to relieve the pressure. Ken knew there was a draft when he left and he promised they
  would bring a negative pressure machine to aid the diagnosis. I never heard about that again though I
  asked several times. A negative pressure machine is the industry standard for air infiltration diagnosis;
  none of the people doing that work to whom I spoke use thermo sensors because they are too unreliable.
  Without the negative pressure machine, your diagnostics are dependent on the weather; for example, for
  the last two days we have been in a warm pocket without a breath of air moving. This would lead you to
  falsely think there were no leaks. Either you use the machine to induce the draft or you have to schedule
  around the weather, looking for a cold day with wind at least 9 mph coming from the south or west. There
  is no difficult process here; bring the crew, rip out what's wrong and do it over, We simply want it fixed.
  Paragraph 2
  RetroFoam at no time made an offer to have a certified HVAC company come here; I'd like to see that
  communication. I never said the HVAC was damaged; I said they would most likely damage it trying to
  excavate it from two layers of foam. I have invited them to give it a go as long as I get a veto if they cause
  rust inducing scratches on the galvanized register boots and make rips and tears in the flex duct. Both of
  those occurrences would be leaving the customer with compromised equipment that is not as it was before
  their work and should be covered, just like the wall, under their warranty. If you want to see what things
  looked like before, ask Scott, RetroFoam’s estimator, if he still has the pics he took. I’d also like a set
  please. I asked him for a set at the time, but I guess he forgot.
  There is an issue with the HVAC being buried in foam For now let’s put aside the building code as doing
  so may cause an avalanche of violations, and getting another involved might just make things worse for
  everyone. If you wish, you have my blessing to have an inspector come here. Back to the HVAC, I did
  not contract for HVAC duct insulation. In fact, I told Brandon before they started spraying the first time
  that they were not to spray the ducts, which he assured me they would not. The pictures tell the story of
  what they did. I also went through the procedures outlined by Scott, the blocking of the vents, the sealing
  
  of the vents and walls, the tightly folded corners of the vapor barrier and the adhering of the vapor barrier
  to the block within 6” of the sill plate. I didn’t get any of that, look at how Joey left the vapor barrier and
  I still have foam all over my front yard.
  Paragraph 3
  I do not see anywhere in the above where there is any offer to respray or repair or patch any of the work,
  or an offer to remove foam from the ducts.
  Please make a PDF of the paragraph and highlight these offers to address and email it so that I may better
  understand what you have offered beyond fixing the lawn and painting the wall and maybe fixing one tiny
  spot. When Brandon was here for his evaluation, he did not want to look at the heat register, and he has
  never once looked at the open-to-the-outdoors vent with no foam in it. Perhaps he would want to return to
  get the full picture since he has been absent from the site since the first day.
  Paragraph 4
  Let me first preface with this: It has consistently been our position that we want this fixed. A monetary
  compensation is a last resort and not a good one as we have been unable to find a single contractor willing
  to remove the work or even one who will re-spray it afterwards. As to the removal of the suspect foam
  below the sill plate and the two problem areas behind the ducts, 4 men with the proper tools could easily
  have it completed in under four hours, leaving plenty of time to seal up the leaks, relay the vapor barrier
  and respray. The foam would have to cure then, so the HVAC work could either be completed the next
  day or in a return visit. Or you can patch up places; I really don’t care as long as the drafts stop and stay
  that way. I am also including a new monetary compensation list that reflects the addition of the removal of
  the foam from the duct work and the probable replacement of the HVAC in the mud room. It is impossible
  to tell at this point if I will be successful at the difficult removal while preserving the integrity of the
  foam, so there is a variable here that does not exist in the front crawl space because we know there are
  unsprayed areas behind the ducts that will require their removal or some very fancy spray techniques for
  remediation. I will endeavor to quote it both ways.
  RetroFoam advertising specifically says RetroFoam insulation creates an air seal that will stop those
  annoying drafts from getting inside your home. That's on Google direct from the website. It's on the
  side of the trailer.
  I have drafts; the vapor barrier billows with wind change; there is more cold air coming up around my
  heat registers than heat, the breeze is very strong. When you stand in front of the access door you can feel
  it on your face. As for temperature, my whole basement air temperature is 50 degrees until later in
  February, when it will drop to 45 if the weather gets cold enough. As for your spot, any air leak showing a
  temperature difference on the surface of 4" thick foam is a huge concern indicating a very likely source of
  infiltration underneath, this is exactly what we have been chasing and could very well be the cause of the
  vapor barrier inflation. The other known air leak, the one that is blowing cold air up my register, is hidden
  behind steel duct work carrying heat and 4" of foam. There is no way your thermo sensor will pick that up
  unless maybe if I turn off my furnace and everything has hours to cool off. Brandon should come back
  and finish the evaluation.
  Paragraph 5
  If RetroFoam wants to come up, they should bring the negative air pressure machine that was promised
  over a month ago, fix what they think is the problem, and then run the test to verify their repair. They
  should also be looking at that heat register draft because it is obviously large. Under negative pressure it
  will sound like a teakettle boiling.
  If it was false, what Ken promised, a negative air machine can be rented. That said, if they want to work
  without diagnostic help, I hold open the invitation to peck away at it, as long as they realize their
  responsibility is to stop the leaks regardless of how many little patch ups they have to drive here to
  complete, and agree to:
  
  Repaint the wall and fix the lawn one last time after they have parked their truck off my property.
  In conclusion:
  It is our primary wish for RetroFoam to fix everything they did including:
  1. The lawn
  2. The wall
  3. The failure to follow my instructions regarding getting foam on the ducts
  4. The air leaks that continue to plague the work.
  Joey, your project manager, said it would have to be redone from scratch; Brandon said he wanted to fix
  it, so we, the customer cannot understand the endless delays and now assertions appearing out of the blue,
  when not a word of any of this was said in the previous month of waiting.
  5. There is also a continuing nauseating odor of uncured foam coming from the front crawl space. Ken
  tried, but all he had was one shirt as a rag and was unable to remove all of the uncured foam that Joey
  sprayed when his gun malfunctioned. I would like that odor gone, it makes me feel sick.
  Otherwise we are only left with the compensation option and to that effect I am including the revised
  compensation data. But, as I said, this is not a good option for us as we cannot find anyone willing to
  clean up after them, no matter how much money I offer, which leaves all the work to a 73 year old man
  and his wife, and that’s not very amicable.
  
  We request that RetroFoam’s reply be made in the same format, paragraph by paragraph, so that we can
  resolve these issues in a logical manner. May I suggest one paragraph just for HVAC, then another for
  scope. Lawn and wall have been agreed on, you will supply parts and labor, you have the shopping list.
  Try to think of things this way: How would you feel if you told a contractor what you did not want them
  to do and then they did exactly the opposite after telling you not to worry.
  
  [To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, we would like to know your view on the matter.]
  
  Regards,
  ***** *****

  Customer response

  02/29/2024

  *********
  7:32 AM (1 hour ago)
  to me
  
  ***** **********

  
  Retro Foam refunded our entire purchase price. While this makes us somewhat happier, better than a big court fight Eh?
  It leaves us with unpaid damages to our property and even more significantly an impossible to deal with mess in our crawlspace.
  It would have been so much cheaper for them to just fix it like we asked from the beginning but I guess that was too much for them.
  The way I see it, everybody loses, I have never in all the 40 years of having contractors here met up with a bunch like these guys, I guess I was lucky up until last year.
  **** *****

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