ComplaintsforKayak Pools Midwest

• Initial Complaint

  12/18/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Unfortunately, I did not have enough characters to completely layout my complaint and the issues I've been having with Kayak Pools Midwest. Please see the attached PDF document for my full complaint and the issues we have encountered with Kayak. Also attached are images and documentation to show some evidence of my complaint/the lack of work being completed by Kayak.

  

  Business response

  12/28/2022

  We are truly sorry that the client is upset with their experience. If they would like someone else to come back out and re-do pool school with them we would be happy to send someone out to do that with them again more thoroughly. They did receive a salt system for their pool. The installer is correct, we do not have design representatives and I am not sure what that is, if you can please show me the email or message where ***** mentioned that I will absolutely speak with him about that.
  
  Dirt removal and backfilling is almost always significantly cheaper to do yourself vs paying our contractors to complete this. We charge over $11,000 retail for that service. Yard damage is something we discuss in-depth and are very forthcoming that it will be severe as this is major construction. As for the water, I do know for a fact that ***** did not tell the client that the fire department would guaranteed fill it for free, because ***** informs all of his clients that he recommends reaching out to your local fire department to see if they would be willing to fill up the pool for a donation,but that not all fire departments can do that, it is simply a suggestion. Also,the client was made aware that trucking water does cost around that amount, as this was one of the services that pricing was listen on our powerpoint (the same place as the pricing for the backfill and dirt removal) and the cost we charge to do this service is over $1,000 so this should have been less than expected. I have attached the slide in our powerpoint that very in-depth goes over all extras and gives costs, this is discussed in depth with every client so they are aware, multiple times actually. As well as I do know the client has seen this slide because they did opt for some of these extras, so I do know for a fact this was discussed. Not to mention we discuss it again in our welcome call the following business day AND in our checklist call once the pool is ordered, just to cover all bases and be extra thorough and make sure there are no surprises.
  
  The set of stairs that the customer ordered is the correct set, they ordered the set that does not come with an attached rail because of their electric cover (the steps with an attached rail do not work with an electric cover, it wont close). It sounds like an additional sandbag is needed to keep the stairs in place. We can absolutely get someone out in the Spring to replace the piece of decking with holes in it and reattach the handrail, that is no problem. We will also have the technician take a look at the stairs since they are not staying in place. All ladders have been on backorder until just recently and so we can also come out at the same time and get that installed for them.
  
  A pool installation is not an overnight process, there are multiple companies involved and many steps to the process that have to be done in a certain order. As for the heater, we do see that for this size pool a larger heater is warranted, so we have ordered a T115 heater and will have that shipped and installed in the Spring when we come out to complete the other items. Thank you for reaching out to us, we will get these issues above rectified in the Spring by sending out one of our best technicians to get everything completed to your satisfaction all at once so you can enjoy your upcoming swim season!  

• Initial Complaint

  11/17/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Order Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  On 6/9/2022 ***** and *************************** signed a contract with Kayak Midwest Pools for an in-ground 16x32 pool. We made a deposit of $14,745.00 The issue and nature of dispute (2):1. Failed to perform obligation:- We were told Kayak would install our pool in summer or late fall of 2022 - We were told Kayak Midwest would provide all documentation for permit application 2. Misrepresentation: - The pools are not true in-ground pools but rather recessed temporary structures. These pools are not considered permanent structures per pool industry.I have tried to contact the multiple times. 11/1, 11/3, 11/7, 11/14, 11/16 The last email was with ******************************* on 11/16 about a phone conversation that took place on 11/14.****** was going to recommend to management, Kayak terminate the contract based on how much the cost for the permit application is for our village ($2,200 + non refundable) and the potential loss Kayak would incur if they provided the permit service to us for *****.

  

  Business response

  11/30/2022

  The Gonzalezs did enter into an agreement with Kayak Pools Midwest on 6/9/2022. They were given a time frame of summer to late fall 2022;as stated on the previously attached agreement. I have included a copy of Kayak pools checklist signed and dated by the Gonzalezs on 9/26/2022. This document states two times in the document that ***** and ***** wanted a spring ************* the Gonzalezs area we had an opportunity to install a few of spring 23s pools. They would need to get their permit and we could get them installed.  Kayak did provide all necessary documentation regarding the pool structure to the Gonzalezs.  The Village is requesting documentation that will require an engineer drawing and the Gonzalezs are not happy with the fees the village is charging for a permit. Kayak does not regulate what each village,city, or town charges for permits but we do require one on file before delivery.  Kayak does state that we will assist you in obtaining your permit; meaning we will answer your questions and offer guidance for no charge. We also offer permit services for a $1500 allowance;this was offered to ***** and ***** by the sales consultant ****** during his presentation. The Gonzalezs did opt for Kayak to complete the plywood,backfill, sump pump, bonding, and sand extras that we offer.  The Gonzalezs are requesting to cancel and receive a full refund. As it states in the Damages section of the Kayak agreement If,after we accept your offer to buy our pool, you cancel this Agreement, you refuse delivery of your pool or we are unable, through your fault, to install your pool, you agree, at the option of Kayak Pools Midwest, to pay liquidated damages equal to all monies paid or 15%, whichever is greater, of total price of the pool unless a lesser amount is agreed upon or is required by applicable law. If the Gonzalezs would like to move forward and contract Kayak to obtain their permit for $1500, we would assist with the additional charges needed for approval.

  Customer response

  11/30/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined the response would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. 
  
  

  We never wanted a 2023 install as it states,that is verbiage they placed in the checklist, which is not a contract. We merely conceded to the fact the pool was not going to get installed in 2022 because we saw what other clients were going through (via social media) and after talking with the salesmen again and asking if it was going to get installed in 2022 as he had verbally suggested at the beginning and before we signed the contract. His response was something along the lines asno way in hell.

  Secondly, Kayak stated on 10/27/22 (see email ****-1) that if we could get Kayak the permit asap, we could get the pool installed this year, 2022.

  It is atrocious that ******** thinks we are not happy with the fees the village is charging for a permit application and is merely a deflection from themselves and the true issue, Kayak employees verbally tell the client one thing and the reality is quite different. We will be paying the permit application fees to the village for the pool with a local pool builder and it will NEVER be a Kayak pool after what they've put us through!

  I am also submitting for your review a partial consensual recording (only 3 minutes of a total of 16 minutes plus conversation) of our salesmen stating towards the end of the call that our cancelation is under review and he sees no issues at all getting this canceled and getting our money back.

  The reason we opted to file the permit ourselves is due to our salesmen telling us we could save $1,500 because they would provide us with everything needed to file for the permit and that they prefer their customers handle this. Contrary to what ******** wants to say, they never told us that ..we will assist in obtaining your permit; meaning we will answer your questions and offer guidance for no charge. This is a blatant lie.

  To give you an idea of the lies and how Kayak change stories, I have composed a timeline along with a separate document with screenshots showing email exchanges between Kayak and us (********):

  **** says we can get the pool installed still in 2022 if we get permit asap.

  We submit for the permit with the village immediately and let Kayak know we need additional documents the village is requesting, grading and stormwater plans.

  Two days later Kayak provide some documentation that does not even qualify for grading and stormwater plans but they tell us to use that.

  After getting the run around about our fence issue and the grading and stormwater plans, Ive just about lost my patience and demand for refund of our deposit money.

  ******** responds that my only two options are: Pay the $1,500 for permit service or lose our deposit money.

  conversation with Kayak and Kayak recommends and suggest we cancel our contract due to permit application being more than $1,500 (what Kayak would charge for the permit service) and the potential loss Kayak would incur since the village fees are non-refundable.

  11-***** / Phone: ****** A recording of this is attached

  Asked for an update on our refund. In the recording ****** states we should have no issue getting our refund.

  11-***** / Email: ************************************* class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">Chelsea now states they cannot provide permit service for $1,500 BUT they will pay for the "additional costs incurred for the unexpected engineered plans", the grading and stormwater plans.

  Kayak is now stating once again that they can provide permit service for $1,500.

   

  We cannot believe anything Kayak says! I just dont know what to believe anymore from all their lies! As you can see, these deceptive business practice has caused us to suffer financial losses, consumer fraud!  Just give us our deposit and lets go our own ways. We are willing to remove all social media negative publicity if we could just have our deposit money refunded. 

  
  Regards,
  
  ***************************
  

  

  Business response

  12/12/2022

  In Eddies conversation with **** in the attached phone recording on 7-12-22, they were discussing delivery of the pool. **** informed ***** that it could be this year or it could be early next year. At minute 3:10 ***** says I was hoping to do it next year so I can invest the money.Ultimately, ***** did elect to delay installation until 2023.
  
  Yes, we did email and inform ***** that if he got his permit we could deliver and install ASAP. The reason for this is because we had their pool in the warehouse and generally we are coming to the end of our installation season at that time of year, but the weather was warmer than usual for that late in the year and we were able to install many more pools than we expected based on weather predictions in the past and so we wanted to give them the option before moving past them in line to get other pools installed still in 2022. It was simply an option we wanted to extend to them, they were always welcome to continue with install in 2023 per ****** original request.
  
  As we have explained numerous times, we are happy to help provide any documentation needed regarding the pool, its equipment, or specs for our customers to obtain permits. However, if a city is requiring additional landscaping or yard documents regarding that ******************* that is something we do not have, as we are not the homeowner. nor do we work for the city Those types of documents are generally supplied to the homeowner at the time of purchase of the home,and in this case it was more extensive than that and they were going to need to hire an engineer to get these plans, but again, they are relating to the yard and not the pool structure. We have engineered stamped specs and drawings of our pools that we provide customers, but this request was way beyond what we could provide, as they pertained to the property and floodplains, etc.Again, why the homeowner is responsible for the permit.
  
  ****** then reached out to the ********* because they were upset about the additional costs and wanted to cancel their pool order. The ********* later informed ****** that there were even more fees associated with their city to acquire a permit and that based on the requirements for the permit they did not believe they would even be able to get approved for the permit in the first place and that they did not want to waste the money on the permit application if it was just going to get denied. Of course, when *********************** this he reassured them because permit denial is a refundable reason for cancellation (we are always going to give a full refund to someone if they cant get approved for a permit for the pool) so when *********************** this he did tell them, per the recording ***** sent, that the cancellation was in the process of being reviewed and that based on everything Ive looked at and youve said there should be no issues getting this cancelled. ****** then asked ***** to send him the plat survey of the property and the permit requirements, basically everything that was leading the ********** to believe they could not get an approved permit for this pool so that we could review it and make a decision.
  
  Here is the problem, when we sent everything that the ********* sent ****** over to our permit department to review they came back and said they saw no issue getting this permit approved and that they did not believe it would get denied. That was the whole basis of ******* statement when he said he believed that there would be no issues getting this cancelled,because he was going off of information given to him by ***** when ***** told him they would likely not be able to get an approved permit. You can even hear ***** and ****** discussing it at the end of the recording. So of course ****** told him ***** didnt see an issue with it based on what ***** was telling him because permit denial is a valid reason for cancellation.
  
  Once we realized that was not the case and that this permit was not going to get denied we informed the ********* that if they did decide to cancel they would be subject to the cancellation fee and there would be no refund since they were not cancelling for a refundable reason as outlined in their contract. Then, after that ***** changed his story and stated that he knew the permit would be approved and that he was going to get a permit for a different pool that was not a Kayak. So unfortunately, it seems that what ***** told ****** regarding the permit likely to be denied was not the truth and I assume was to try and get ****** to give him a refund when really that was not the case and he knew he was cancelling for a nonrefundable reason.
  
  Unfortunately, the Gonzalezs are asking to cancel their contract for a nonrefundable reason, so per their contract if they do decide to cancel this late in the process when their pool has already completed manufacturing and is sitting in our warehouse ready to be delivered and installed, there will be no refund. If they choose to proceed we have offered to pay for the additional costs of the 2 engineered drawings that their city is requiring, the drawings that they wanted us to provide from the beginning and the whole reason they asked to cancel in the first place. The options at this point are to proceed and Kayak will pay for the drawings, or cancel and all funds they have paid up until this point will remain on account should they ever decide to revisit a Kayak Pool in the future.
  
  We do want to come to a resolution. Thank you for working with us on this!

  Customer response

  12/14/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined the response would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. 
  
  Yes, I did say I was hoping to do it next year so I can invest the money. This was only after talking to ****** and ****** telling us that there was no way in h*** the pool would get installed in 2022. We kept on getting different timelines as to when the pool would get installed, first it was late summer/early fall of 2022, then it was no way in h*** it would be installed in 2022, and after seeing what others were going through, naturally I gave into the idea of the pool being installed in 2023.  However, when the opportunity arose on 10/28/22 with the email from **** stating Kayak could get the pool installed this year if we got the permit, we submitted the documentation to the village for the permit immediately, BECAUSE WE WANTED A POOL IN 2022, NOT IN 2023. It was never our original request to have the pool installed in ******************** the latest better business bureau response. If I wanted the pool in 2023, I would have never agreed or said yes to **** on 10/28/22, but Kayak needs to make it seem like we wanted a pool in 2023 and discredit us. We have proof we submitted for the permit the same day on 10/28/22.
  
  Basically, Kayak's defense is blatantly false, absurd, and inexcusable. Its a lie. We did not tell ******, our salesmen, they (Kayak) will likely not be able to get an approved permit. How on earth would we even know if it would or wouldnt get approved? Perhaps ****** assumed that based on our conversation and had given us false hopes. ****** was the one who recommended we cancel the contract. Hes the one that suggested we cancel after hearing that our village requires over $2,200 in fees for the permit on top of grading/stormwater plans and said our village is corrupt and that Kayak could take a potential loss if they provided the permit service for $1,500. After hearing about the permit cost, ****** agreed we should cancel the contract. We never told ****** that based on the requirements for the permit they did not believe they would even be able to get approved for the permit in the first place and that they did not want to waste the money on the permit application if it was just going to get denied.  ****** is the one that stated the permit application may not even get approved! We agreed that there is a possibility, as with anything, that the permit could not get approved. Yes, ****** did ask us to send him the plat survey of the property and the permit requirements and fees (which was provided to employees of Kayak previously but apparently never reviewed). When I asked ****** why he needed the plat survey of the property, his response was, I dont know or something to that effect. Something along the lines of management requested it and I didnt ask why. I thought it was odd he needed the plat survey if he is going to recommend to management that we terminate the contract. As we have explained numerous times, Kayak employees verbally tell the customer one thing and the reality is quite different: ****** was lying to us about the cancellation. He probably was never going to suggest to management that we cancel as he stated to us over the phone. It was merely his way of ending the phone conversation and telling us what we wanted to hear.
  
  As we have explained numerous times, we will NEVER put a Kayak pool in our back yard using a company that is deceitful and KNOWINGLY LIES, (including in this latest BBB response). It is disgusting and despicable the lies you tell, including the following: Then, after that ***** changed his story and stated that he knew the permit would be approved and that he was going to get a permit for a different pool that was not a Kayak. Please provide when I stated that since you have recordings and emails? As *** said many times now, we NEVER told ****** that our permit application would not get approved. Clearly ****** is telling us one thing and telling Kayak management another. Please submit to the BBB when we told ****** this and when I changed my story.  I cannot believe how dishonest Kayak is. Kayak wants the BBB to believe the issue is with the additional cost for the permit, it is not. The reason for our cancellation is not only because of the additional cost, its so much more. And never once did we tell Kayak we wanted to cancel because of the additional cost.  If the additional cost was the issue, we would choose to proceed with the pool installation through Kayak Midwest since the latest response says they have offered to pay for the additional costs of the 2 engineered drawings that their city is requiring. Again, the main issue is with Kayak employees verbally telling the customer one thing and the reality is quite different. However, it goes beyond the lies; its the poor communication (like telling us one day they'll do the permit services to then a different day telling us they won't provide permit services  but they'll pay for the grading/stormwater plans ), its the awful service they provide. From promises of when the pool is going to be installed, to issues about our fence, misrepresentation of the pool being an inground pool (it is not considered permanent structures per pool industry), how unprofessional they are, and now sending harassing text messages calling me a liar and so much more! Why would anyone want to do business from this place the way they treat customers? How would the company respond to us if we continued this process and our pool had issues where we needed service? Based on our experience thus far and how much negative feedback there is online, I doubt Kayak Midwest would help. The relationship between us and Kayak is irreparable and we have a big distaste for the company. The ONLY solution is for our refund. I honestly do not know how they are in business. They persuade the customer to sign the contract and handle the services so that they trap the customer into this exact situation we are now in. And based on what I understand, we are not the only customer in this position.  They dont care about the customer or what is involved in the permit process, once youve signed the contract, youre pretty much stuck in this contract with this horrendous company. Kayak Midwest knowingly does this on purpose. The salesmen stated before we signed, Kayak would provide all documentation necessary for the permit, even in the recording ****** admits that yes, we do provide all documentation necessary and that is true for 95% of their customers. What about the other 5%?  The salesmen use carefully worded corporate jargon to scam and defraud consumers. We were swayed into handling the permit so that we could "save ourselves the $1,500 for the permit services" and handle it ourselves. 
  
  Kayak Midwest has our deposit money but we would never give Kayak Midwest additional money based on our experience with them. Yes, we will be getting a pool EVENTUALLY with a local, reputable pool builder, but I would never put in a Kayak pool even if you gave it to us for free. Especially after hearing horror stories from other people about their installation mistakes and what they have to go through to get them corrected. Kayak Midwest has put us through so much with lies, deceit and misinformation.  How they conduct business is beyond disgraceful but I guess that's why they are no longer BBB accredited. Kayak has not stepped one foot on our property and hasnt done any work for us with the exception of this back and forth horrible communication. There is no reason we cant cut ties and get our money back. 
  
  
  Regards,
  
  ***************************
  

• Initial Complaint

  10/08/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  We bought our pool last fall, to be installed in the spring per recorded phone calls. We received our pool in spring. We did not have contact with an installer until mid-July. It was long enough that the boxes were degrading. ***** the installer arrived July 23 to start. The pool was supposed to be a above ground pool. By the time ***** was done "leveling and getting below roots" it is now almost a in-ground pool on the front. Not a big deal except I had to buy exterior plywood to surround the outside of the pool where we will be backfilling, drain tile and gravel. Additional cost. The pool was supposed to be lined up with the house. It is at an angle.***** was unable to finish pool due to needing parts. Returned July 30 to "finish" pool. Advised him of a leak at the pump, and water level dropping. He left the 30th. Sent him a text about some missing fencing on the 31st. Also advised him that the water level dropped still after pump leak fixed. New liner arrived Aug 8, and is still sitting beside the barn. August 5 we were contacted by **** asking about the final payment of $1000. We already paid $34,000! He said "Wanted to ask you to send us a check by mail or phone? To avoid it being sent to collections." August 11 ***** was supposed to be back to work on the pool. Friday Aug 12 **** replied to a email that ***** would be there by "Friday" to finish pool. August 12, I also emailed **** with pictures of incomplete items on the pool. He thanked me for the pictures then no communication. August 17 I text ***** asking if he knew when he would be back. He said ***** contacted him and they were ordering additional parts. Parts arrived Sept 19. Advised ***** and ****. ***** said she forwarded to the service department. Sept 29 sent email asking for update. No reply. Called no reply. Sept 19 I also asked for some sort of compensation due to being unable to use the pool this year.

  

  Business response

  10/21/2022

  The Hommans were given a time frame of late spring to mid summer pending weather and unforeseen circumstances. They received their pool the first week of July and was installed by 7/27/2022, which is with-in the timeframe given. The Hommans did have a slope in their yard and was informed from the beginning that if we have to do a slope dig more that 2ft that there may be an additional charge. The ground had to be dug out to make the pool level and that is why the pool is at grade in the front. This is also more than 2ft and I do not see an additional charge of $1192.50 for the extra 1.5ft needed to level the pool. We do have the Hommans scheduled for service October 22nd to complete and repair their pool. We are continuing to work with the Hommans to get their pool complete and account settled. 

  Customer response

  10/24/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined the response would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. 
  
  For starters, most everybody recognizes summer as Memorial day weekend to Labor day weekend, as it is too cold in our area to open earlier than Memorial day, or stay open past Labor day. This "summer" had 101 days. July 27 was 61 days into the season. The pool was erected but is not installed. Installed would be a completed product. This is far from completed. I have recorded conversations of phone calls that said it would be completed in the spring by the salesman. He said that the contract might say a little later but that was a norm and we would be swimming by summer. 

  
  

  As far as the extra depth, this was supposed to be an on-grade install which would have put the depth of dig less than 2 feet. The area that was to be on grade is approx 16 inches below grade. The initial installer, I think had trouble getting a level grade so he kept digging deeper than needed. Ironically, the "deep end" is not even dug to the correct depth, which is a contributing factor to why we have the wrinkles in our liner. It was supposed to be 5 feet, 6 inches. It is much closer to 5ish feet. Maybe a bit shy of 5 feet. 

  
  

  So we were scheduled for repairs to start on Oct 22. The repair person was a no-call, no-show on Oct 22.. I emailed everyone I had contact info for asking if the repair person was coming. To this day, I have not heard back from one of them. The repair person called me Sunday morning, Oct 23, and said he was on his way. Due to scheduling, I was not going to be there when he arrived. I explained to him that since he was a no-show the day before I could not introduce him to our dogs, therefore I was unsure if he would be able to get in and do the work. He said he would try and was able to commence work on the pool before I got home. He had the pool drained and had conversations with his scheduler (***** I think). The repairman was told to leave by *****. He had already drained the pool! He was told any liner work would have to wait until spring. It was known that there was liner work, before the repairman showed up! They delivered a new liner prior to arrival of the repairman! They (*****) said they would schedule a water truck to come in and fill our pool back up.  As of now, this has not taken place yet as I have had no communication from Kayak. 

  
  

  The picture I uploaded this time, shows the depth below grade. That corner was supposed to be at grade. I have many other pictures of the incorrect install.  Also note the amount of moisture under the deck. It has not really dried out since install due to the liner leaking. 

  
  

  Kayak is NOT continuing to work with us to get the pool completed and account settled as they claim in their rebuttal. If anything they are generally working against us by not communicating, by not being willing to accept that the initial installer was not qualified, (I know, he was certified per employees at Kayak), and by trying to say we owe more money. We have lost the use of the pool for the entire summer. Our yard is still a mess as I am afraid to do much work due to not knowing everything that they are going to fix, I have been unable to complete the electric again due to not knowing exactly what is going to be done with the filter and how it is sitting on the ground, not on any blocks. To square the pool up with the house the way it was supposed to be done would require the whole pool be disassembled and reassembled in the correct orientation (and probably more excavation work). Orienting the pool the way it was supposed to be is the least of my worries, even though aesthetically it is not pleasing to the eye. The longer this drags out though, the more I am wanting it oriented correctly. 

  
  Regards,
  
  *************************
  

  

  Business response

  11/04/2022

  Mr. ******* service is scheduled for November 12th. At that time the swing up ladder, apron and fence will be installed.  We will be correcting the deep end depth and installing new liner in the spring. These items have to wait till spring due to the temperatures this time of year are not conducive for proper liner installation. The Hommans have informed us that they agreed to these terms. 

  Customer response

  11/08/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined the response would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. 
  
  The only person I have spoke with has been ************** the Nov 12 date. He did advise me that they would do the liner in the spring however obviously I have no idea of when. The reason I am rejecting this rebuttal is three fold. 

  
  

  1) Nobody has actually called or returned emails on the repair plan. I have an email dated Nov 2 requesting a follow-up after speaking with ****** and ***** Oct 31. ***** assured me she would call me Nov 1. No response. I have other questions that have not been answered. 

  2) Nobody has addressed the compensation for loss of use, the hassles I have had in getting anything accomplished, or my time involved with this issue.

  3) Nobody has addressed the issue with the orientation of the pool. Will that be fixed when the liner work is getting done? 

  The pool picture attached shows approximate location of pool currently. It was supposed to be squared up with the house (Picture2) so I would have linear lines to build my patio between my man door on the garage and the pool. 

  
  Regards,
  
  *************************
  

  

  Business response

  11/21/2022

  When receive the evaluation back from the Technician that was there last week. We will take a close look at the information submitted and respond with a plan of action.

  Customer response

  12/02/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined the response would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. 
  
  Pretty obvious they have no plans to finish the job. We are into winter now and I know they can't do the liner work. The repair man did come and did some of the repairs. None of my other concerns have been addressed. 
  
  Regards,
  
  *************************
  

• Initial Complaint

  09/25/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Partial refund of payment they received.Full refund payment for the usage of my water to fill the pool, because my contract stated water would be delivered. Unfortunately, that didnt happen the installer use my yard holes to fill the pool.

  

  Business response

  10/04/2022

  *********'s pool has been installed. We are currently making the arrangements for dirt removal. Photos of the the remaining dirt have been included.  Contract does state that we will provide water and In August we requested a copy of the ******* water bill for reimbursement. 

  Customer response

  10/10/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined the response would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear 

  1. The crew Kayak sent to backfill hit the corner of the pool and damaged it

  2. The electrical work is not completed 

  3. the pool was not backfill correctly 

  4. The crew that installed the pool broke a pipe underground and Kayak would not pay to have it repaired 

  5.  In addition the pool drop in steps that were purchased as part of the pool package has not arrive on site and Kayak is unable to provide a tracking number for this item

  6. Finally, Kayak proposed for to sign off on a completion document when nothing as passed final inspection from the city of Fraser

  
  Regards,
  
  ***************************

  
  

  

  Business response

  01/23/2024

  Dear BBB Team,
  I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to provide an update on the status of complaint #******** filed by *************************** on 9/26/2022 regarding her pool installation.
  The ******** pool installation was completed on 6/20/2023. Subsequently, we addressed the concerns raised by ******* by replacing the bent-up corner section of the apron. Additionally, a refund of $447.33 was issued to cover the additional water charges incurred.
  As of our last communication, there have been no further correspondence from *******, and we have not received any reports of unresolved issues. We take customer satisfaction seriously and have made every effort to ensure a fair resolution.
  To update the status of this complaint, we kindly request guidance on the specific process or documentation required by the BBB. We are committed to maintaining transparency and addressing any outstanding concerns promptly.
  Thank you for your attention to this matter. We appreciate the BBB's commitment to facilitating fair resolutions between businesses and consumers.

• Initial Complaint

  09/08/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  CONTRACTED WITH KAYAK POOLS FOR INSTALLATION ON 10/23/21 WITH INSTALLATION DATE OF LATE SPRING EARLY SUMMER OF 2022. WE WERE NOTIFIED IN EARLY MAY 2022, THE INSTALL DATE WOULD NOW BE POSSIBLY LATE SUMMER. WE THEN PROCEEDED TO START AND COMPLETE INSTALLATION OF PATIO AND SHED PROJECT. WE WERE CONTACTED AGAIN CONCERNING PERMIT APPLICATIONS ON JUNE 21,2022. WHEN ASKED FOR AN INSTALLATION DATE WE WERE TOLD CANNOT SCHEDULE INSTALL DATE WITHOUT PERMITS; AFTER APPLYING FOR PERMIT WITH HOA AND FORWARDING IT TO KAYAK WE STILL DID NOT GET AN INSTALL DATE WHICH IS WHEN WE DECIDED TO CANCEL THE ***** AFTER NOTIFYING KAYAK OF CANCELLATION, WE WERE TOLD THAT WE ARE NOT ENTITELED TO A FULL REFUND UNDER THEIR POLICY BUT WERE LATER TOLD DUE TO THE DELAYS WHICH WERE NOT OF OUR DOING, KAYAK IS WILLING TO GIVE US A 50% REFUND OF OUR DEPOSIT OF $9,730.00 BECAUSE OF EXPENSES "KAYAK" SAYS THEY INCURRED. WE FIND THIS UNACCEPTABLE DUE TO THE ***** THAT NOTHING WAS GIVEN TO US AND ONLY AFTER WE NOTIFIED KAYAK OF THE CANCELLATION, WE WERE THEN NOTIFEID THE EXPENSES WERE ALREADY INCURRED ON THEIR SIDE. IN OUR OPINION, WE FEEL WE ARE ENTITLED TO A FULL REFUND, AFTER REVIEWING ALL OF KAYAKS DECEPTIVE PRACTICES.IS THIS HOW KAYAK DOES BUSINESS, BY NOT FULFILLING THEIR CUSTOMERS CONTRACTS, & ONLY AGREEING TO PAY BACK 50% OF THEIR DEPOSIT???WE ARE BOTH SENIORS, HAVE WORKED ALL OF OUR LIVES & TO BE HONEST WE FEEL THIS IS A FORM OF "EXTORTION"!PLEASE REVIEW OUR COMPLAINT & HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU SOON.

  

  Business response

  09/20/2022

  On October 23, 2021, the ****** signed the attached agreement that states, Customer understands current timeline of late Spring, mid-Summer 2022 pending weather, financing, and any major unforeseen circumstances. The ****** pool was ordered on November 4, 2021, after we received the 25%required. We have their pool in our warehouse, ready for delivery once we received the ****** permit. The customer informed us in May that the permit is good for 60 days and we recommend that they wait. The ****** pool was ready for delivery and Kayak requires the permit to be on file before delivery.  On July,18 2022 we requested the permit and ************** replied that he would submit it on that day. Kayak was on schedule for the mid-summer timeframe given when we were notified on July 28,2022, that ************** wanted to cancel and be refunded. He had built a shed and installed concrete and the pool they were about to have delivered would no longer fit in his yard. At this time, we offered to downsize his pool to accommodate his needs. ************** was also informed that according to the cancelation policy on his signed agreement that he does not qualify for a refund. Due some early spring manufacturing and weather delays beyond our control Kayak did offer to refund the ****** 50% if the deposit paid and the remaining balance would remain on their account if they decided to come back to Kayak in the future. The ****** did not accept our offer.

• Initial Complaint

  08/31/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I purchased a pool in July of 2021 was told it would be installed by Nov. of 2021. It never happened the spring of 2022 I called the company many times and was told one excuse after another her it is September and our pool is still not fully installed. When I told this man **** I wanted a refund, all of a sudden the pool was going to be delivered on the day of delivery we had to give them a certified check to pay for the remainder of the cost of the pool and we did that. Two days later we we called for a date to install when the installers came to put the pool together low and behold parts were missing, called the company again every excuse in the world i finally called the company that sells the parts to kayak and asked what was taking so long the women told me she would send them out the next day and she did. Now we are waiting for the heater and stairs. So the way it stands we cant use our pool that was purchased in 2021, its now Sept in IL. So looks like we have to wait until 2023 to use this pool. I would appreciate anything you can do for me and my family. Thank you so much.

  

  Business response

  09/15/2022

  The *** ********s pool has been installed with the exception of their steps and heater. The steps are scheduled to be delivered this week and the heater is on its way as well. Neither of these components would keep the San Filippo family from enjoying their Kayak pool.  

• Initial Complaint

  08/31/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Order Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  We contracted with Kayak for a inground pool at the end of may with a deposit of ****** and they told us the pool would possibly be to by the end of July. In June we made another payment of ********* . Sine the second payment we only get a response of our pool is still being built. They do not answer emails and have hung up on us a couple times . And now before they hung up on me yesterday the person told me possibly to have the pool in the spring.

  

  Business response

  09/13/2022

  The ******** were never told their pool would be installed by July. When they signed their contract in May they agreed to a timeline of mid to late Summer 2022 (as stated in their contract - late summer is recognized as the middle to end of September), then the ******** did not provide their 25% to order their pool and begin their timeframe until June 21st, marking the beginning of their timeframe. At that time they were verbally told by the staff member conducting their installation checklist that during the 5 weeks that had passed from the time that they signed their contract and the time that they put their 25% down to actually order the pool, our timelines had changed as it was getting later in the summer, and they would be looking at a fall of 2022 install with the possibility of carrying over to Spring of 2023. They agreed to this timeframe and I have a document where ******************* signed immediately under that statement in writing of her new timeframe. Their pool was then ordered and in manufacturing for several weeks, as this is the longest portion of the process. When they called in they were told that the pool was still in manufacturing, which was correct. Our employee did end the call when speaking with **** as he did use 2 curse words in the call, I later called **** and informed him that I personally don't think the call warranted being ended and I that I would be happy to help him and answer all of his questions and I also apologized for his call being ended (I can send over the call recording and you can hear the 2 times in the call that he cursed and got upset). Our installation team member had asked ****************** for his permit during this phone call and he got very angry saying he already sent it over. She asked him if he could send it to her and he said yes and that he had it lying around somewhere and would send it. A few days later I called ****************** to clear up the confusion on his pool timeframe, to let him know his pool had completed manufacturing, and to let him know we were expediting his pool and getting his pool delivered sooner than expected (even though we were still well within our original quoted timeframe). I asked ****************** to send me his permit (as we cannot deliver a pool until we have received a permit). ****************** told me he would send it over that day. I didn't receive anything that day or the next and so I called and spoke with ******************* and she informed me that they didn't even have their permit yet and needed an inspection before it could be issued. I then called ****************** and he informed me that he had lost the permit that was originally issued and when he went to get another one they realized they were missing an inspection and would not issue the permit again until the inspection was completed. ****************** also informed me that he had numerous friends in that department and that he worked for the city and would be able to get it done quickly. I called the building department myself and they informed me that a permit had never been issued, that there were numerous departments that still hadn't signed off on the permit as it was still under review, and that it had not been applied for until September 6th (the day I spoke with ****************** and he told me he would send me his permit). They assured me that they would not issue a permit until it had final approval and that they had not issued a copy earlier. I informed ****************** of this and he said that he would get the permit that day. He did send me a copy of the permit that day after personally going down to the permit office. I then was able to still get his pool on the truck for delivery this week (even though I didn't get the permit in time, we still made an exception for him and got him on the delivery list). His pool is being delivered this week. We have gone above and beyond moving the ******** up in line when their current timeframe is late fall to Spring of 2023. I had been in communication with both Mr and ******************* last week numerous times regarding their pool status, permit, and delivery of their pool. We are looking forward to getting the ******** swimming! Thank you!

• Initial Complaint

  08/29/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  I purchased a pool with Kayak pools in December of last year for $63,963. A $15k down payment was issued at the time of purchase. A check for $47,963 was issued on 8/10 when the pool was delivered. On 8/23 a contractor arrived on site to install the pool. On 8/24 the contractor left the site with approximately 75% of the install completed. The contractor stated that missing parts was the reason that the install was not completed. On 8/24 I contacted Kayak Pools in regards to the completion of the install. Kayak stated they had a 2nd contractor lined up to complete the work on 8/25 or 8/26. By the end of day on 8/26 no contractor had arrived or contacted me for scheduling. After contacting Kayak Pools on 8/26 they stated that an installer was scheduled for 8/28. As of 8/29 no one has returned to the job site and the work has not been completed. After several attempts to get an update install date Kayak there is currently no date committed. In addition the pool heater that was purchased as part of the pool package has not arrived on site and Kayak is unable to provide a tracking number for this part that I am being told has shipped.

  

  Business response

  08/31/2022

  We are working with ************ to complete his pool installation. There is a Kayak service technician working on the *********** today and should have his liner completed by tomorrow. ************ has received the tracking number for his heater that is on it's way to him. 

  Customer response

  09/01/2022

  Better Business Bureau:

  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this response/resolution is satisfactory to me. 
  
  

  Kayak Pools has resolved the complaint in a timely manner.  Thank you for responding.
  

  Regards,

  *****************

• Initial Complaint

  08/26/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  My pool was delivered after The promised time which is understandable because of Covid. My pool was delivered and partially installed by ******, who advised us he would return and correct the issue that was his fault for not listening to his gut" the pool is sitting in my yard and not able to be used. The drain holes were not cut in,the filter has a Crack and this is now the 2nd summer that I paid a ridiculous price for a pool and am unable to use it while he is still installing other pools. I have reached out to Kayak pools on multiple occasions and spoke with multiple people including the installation, manager customer service manager and even a retired installer who is now back with Kayak because of customer complaints with installs. But still no resolve! I even sent a message for them to just come and remove the pool and issue a refund since they don't want to correct the issues and nothing!!! I am so dissapointed! The customer service was good before they received my payment and after they received payment it has been terrible!! I don't know what else to do! But something has to give,this was alot of money to have invested in a pool that Kayak made all these promises about that they didn't follow through with! I have sent pictures and emails and they had someone come out and write up work order on and before 8/5/22 and still nothing!!

  

  Business response

  10/06/2022

  Kayak Pools service technician is at the Sachs residence today completing the installation. We have also compensated the Sachs with $250 Of Kayak Kash for delays & Issues.  

  Customer response

  10/12/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined the response would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. 
  
  [Provide details of why you are not satisfied with this resolution.]
  
  Regards,
  
  ***********************
  

  Customer response

  10/14/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined the response would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. 
  
  [Provide details of why you are not satisfied with this resolution.]

  These are also some pictures to show the pool is still sitting on the pavers and I was informed that the installer was to do nothing else and that Kayak would send out a landscaper to finish the rest of the work. I have yet to hear anything from them 
  
  Regards,
  
  ***********************

  
  

  

  Business response

  10/17/2022

  Kayak has completed the Sachs' pool installation and repairs.  We have attached the service statement for the remaining outstanding items that were completed on the day of service. There has been no agreement on Kayaks part to contract landscapers for the Sachs. I have attached the signed Kayak agreement for review. 

  Customer response

  10/19/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined the response would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. 
  
  [Provide details of why you are not satisfied with this resolution.]

  The company has not responded since the installer left my home. I have not heard from anybody at Kayak poolsMiswest. The last response that was sent to *************** with BBB IS THE LAST I HAVE HEARD OF ANYTHING.

  The installer that completed the work order said Kayak was going To send someone else out to complete the landscaping where the pool was not leveled out completely. He said he couldn't  get an dirt and where the pool still had gaps underneath the would fix that. He pushed dirt up against the pool in some areas, removed the timber  and pushed the previous mulch up over the pavers but it's not leveled out. Here are some pictures of how it was left. It's not my fault that when the pool was originally installed that the Installer didn't dig down enough and the pool was un level and the legs of the deck were dangling in the air, so why should we have to pay or complete the landscaping  for something Kayaks installer never completed? I am aware of our original service agreement and that was before the installer did an incomplete job and didn't level out the pool properly, and the 4 recent pictures I attached our what it looks like now! I have not been reimbursed for the water and don't trust that I will be. I still dont believe that i have been compensated enough for our troubles or that the situation with the pool has been completely rectified.The current installer said he couldn't get dirt either, so he just pushed up the mulch that ****** used when he originally didn't finish the job. I dont accept!

  
  Regards,
  
  ***********************

  
  

  

  Business response

  10/31/2022

  There was no report from our service technician that the pool was not level when he was there. Kayak has not received any pictures showing it out of level. We have never agreed to landscape the Sachs yard and the photos they have submitted show the work completed as it should be. Kayak will be happy to reimburse for the water used to fill the Sachs pool with their water hose. We will need the last 3 months water bills to figure the amount to reimburse the Sachs. The Sachs have also been given $250 of Kayak Kash to use at their leisure for supplies from our Kayak Katalogue. With the exception of the water reimbursement Kayak has completed our contractual agreement with the Sachs. 

• Initial Complaint

  08/23/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Order Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  In February 2021, we did a virtual meeting w/Kayak & committed to purchase a pool (total price $******). We paid $500 to start the process (2/25/21) & then $13**** at contract signing (3/8/21). The pool should have been installed in the spring/summer of 2021. In their contract, it does say that installation is due to weather & other factors. Finally in early fall they were ready to deliver the pool but could not give us a date after delivery which install would take place. Unfortunately, for us that was not possible due to our wedding schedule (wedding venue on site with our home). They were very aware of our wedding business & knew they would work around that schedule. We had asked them to postpone the install until late fall when we finished our season (they agreed). In late fall, they asked us if we would be willing to be first on their spring install list instead of late fall to which we agreed. They contacted us in early April to schedule delivery of the pool. We took delivery on 4/12/22 & paid them $40,931 (leaving only a $1,000 balance). I continued to check in regarding actual install with little answer as to when that would happen. The pool was finally installed on 6/6/22 which is when the serious issues began.During installation, we immediately realized that the pool was VERY crooked to our home. We asked the crew if they measured or how they aligned it to the home. He told us we used our eye to line it up with the windows over there. We demanded that they correct it then. Unfortunately, they were not super willing or able on their own. My husband pulled the rebar himself from 3 of the 4 sides because they wouldn't allow him to pull the 4th side. They picked up 1 end and moved it over which created a tork to the frame which didn't show until the pool was full of water (see pics). This was 2 1/2 months ago and our pool is still sitting the same & we have never received our 10K electric cover. We want our money back and the pool removed!

  

  Business response

  08/25/2022

  *******,
  
  We have offered numerous times to come out and move the location of the pool to your liking, as well as finish the decking, schedule your electric cover installtion with coverstar, and fix any other issues with the pool. I am not sure where we are being negligent when we have offered to fix the things you are unhappy about and you are declining our offers?
  
  So, one last time we would like to resolve this amicably and we ask that you let us come out and move/complete the pool for you so we can all put this behind us and you guys can still get some swimming time. We will cover the costs of the pool move, the water to fill the pool, and any other repairs that need done so that the pool is fully swimmable and operational. We do ask that before we arrive you have the portion of the pool dug out that you backfilled after installation as well as the plywood detached from the pool walls so that we can get right to work. We will ensure everything is done properly and to your satisfaction! In addition, we will put the plywood back on the pool walls that was taken off, and we will backfill the pool for you free of charge. Once this is completed, that is when Coverstar will come out (with the electric cover) and install it for you. They cannot come out and install the cover until the backfill has been completed, this is why you do not have the electric cover in your possession, because the pool is not ready for it yet and they will bring it with them.
  
  Your pool package is not refundable at this point since it has been disassembled and build. The manufacturer would not allow us to return it and refund you in full at this point even if we wanted to. Our ************ are to live with how the pool is currently or allow us to come out and move it.Please let us know your decision by the end of the day tomorrow.
  

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