ComplaintsforBeaver Coach Sales of Oregon LLC

• Initial Complaint

  04/17/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  3/22/23 Paid $204,000 Purchased a brand new never used motorhome.Drove it straight home from dealer. The next day/evening it rained. Following day I went inside the rv after the rain, less than 48 hours in my possession, and major water leak from ceiling to bottom of RV wall. Upon further examination the Fiberglass wall is delaminating. Meaning it has been leaking for a while. Water intrusion is worst thing for motorhomes and will significantly hurt resale and value of motorhome. It cant be repaired easily and requires significant body work. On top of delamination, there is rust/corrosion on steel where leak is. This will lead to safety issues.Dealer acts like they did not know. I told them on day 2 about the issue and on day 3 that I was going to return for a refund or exchange for another motorhome. They have denied my request and only offer to repair. I was buying and wanting a brand new motorhome free of major defects and water damage. Owners son told me prior to purchase this unit was in excellent condition and free of major defects. I believe they sold me this unit knowing it had damage so they could get it off their books, and now only offer the manufacturer to repair under warranty. Meanwhile I went from buying a brand new motorhome to purchasing a majorly repaired motorhome with unknown issues that will arise later due to water damage. Plus, repair would take months and I will be out thousands in payments and loss of use for several trips planned with my family. I feel I was deceived on its condition. The value of a repaired motorhome such as this would be worth tens of thousands of dollars less than one brand new condition (significant value drop). Further mold will most likely develop and my wife has auto immune disease and highly allergic to mold. I have never used the motorhome. I had it for less than 2 days, then it went straight back to dealer. I have found other consumers who are also having same issues as me. I am not the only one

  

  Business response

  04/17/2023

  
  
  
  
  
  In response to BBB complaint. 
  
  The manufacturer has made specific offers concerning the disposition of this unit and they retain specific legal rights to bring this to a resolution. ********** Coach has sent two representatives to our facility to visually inspect the unit and discuss options. Because the vehicle warranty is supplied by the vehicle manufacturer all options moving forward are at the direction of ********** Coach and its representatives. 
  All remedies outside of the specific offers made in writing by BCS will require manufacturer participation. Both Beaver Coach Sales and Thor have offered resolutions. TMC has offered to relieve the financial burden for a specific period during the repair process and BCS has offered trade options. There is no drop in value as there is no branding of title such as in case of a large collision repair where a reconstructed title would be issued after a total loss. 
  At this time we have no repair orders open, we have no check-in documentation and have yet to perform any inspection beyond the superficial as we have no authorization from the customer to properly inspect the unit. It has resided in our showroom since being dropped off without notification or appointment. 
  We appropriated an industrial dehumidifier as the customers' concerns with water intrusion have been heard and acted upon immediately. Over the course of over two weeks we ran an  industrial dehumidifier in the unit; that was intended for spaces much larger than the cabin of a motorhome. 
  For the first five days we ran a large industrial dehumidifying unit 24 hours a day every day, it had extracted so little moisture the receptacle was all but empty. Fearing that the unit was defective because so little moisture had been recovered we acquired another unit of a different model and manufacture but of equal or greater capacity. Over the course of over two weeks the industrial dehumidifier that was intended for spaces much larger than the cabin of a motorhome has collected less than 2.5 gallons of water. This amount of humidity over that period of time could be expected to be extracted from ambient air and was neither extraordinary or excessive. 
  The cause of the delamination (approximately sqft to 1 sqft ) has yet to be ascertained as we have no authorization from the consumer to exercise any repairs or diagnosis. There are several conditions besides the introduction of water into the wall that can cause this, because we have no authorization to investigate we cannot be certain. To presume the cause of delamination is related to water intrusion without confirmation is speculation. 
   As previously communicated; our primary goal is to provide quality products and services to our valued customers. We do perform an inspection of our inventoried units upon arrival and upon the sale with an emphasis on safety, livability and functionality. Over the course of many years and many sales we have developed a high degree of confidence in identifying and addressing issues before the unit leaves our showroom. 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  There are a great many components and moving parts that all must act in concert to deliver a trouble free experience (approximately ****** in a class a motor coach). There are many environmental conditions that cannot be duplicated in the inspection process such as large amounts of rain over an extended period of time.  
  At no point during our possession of the unit; through multiple inspections, were there any indications or notations of water intrusion. In the course of unit preparation with this unit (as is the case with all recreational vehicles) many other typical issues were noted and addressed, there would be no logical reason to leave this particular issue unresolved if it were apparent prior to delivery. 
  There was no malice or negligence or nefarious intent involved in this transaction. There were two nearly identical units to choose from at no time did the sales associate convince the customer to choose one or the other as the final deciding factor was vehicle color so to allude to the transaction being a set up is not an accurate depiction of events or intent. Any issues present with the unit existed without our knowledge and were not apparent upon inspection. 
  In instances where repairs are necessary our aim is to rectify deficiencies as quickly and efficiently as possible with authorization by both the customer and the manufacturer in accordance with manufacturer guidelines and applicable state laws and statutes. 
  In this situation as in any other we are obligated to participate in the resolution to the degree the manufacturer recommends as any post sale resolution within the warranty period is specific in nature and requires pre-authorization. 
  To the point of other consumers having the same issues the presence of water leaks in motorhomes, travel trailers in all price points from all manufacturers is not unique or typically catastrophic in nature. These are some of the most common repair concerns in the industry and this has been the case since their inception. In some cases the units are stored in areas where rain is light, occasional and inconsistent. Rarely do those people experience these issues. In other cases they live in areas where rain is common, persists for extended periods and is heavy. In those cases additional precautions and steps may need to be taken. 
  We have been anticipating the impending fallout from this situation since the intent of the owner was made clear; that if we did not immediately act in accordance with demands we would be subjected to rebuke on as many social media and industry platforms as possible in an effort to leverage the owners position.
  
  
  

  Customer response

  04/20/2023

   
  Complaint: 19943654
  
  I am rejecting this response because of many inaccuracies in the business's response.  I have all of communications and proof in forms of several pictures, videos, emails, and text messages between myself and Beaver Motorcoach Sales employees and Thor Motorcoach representatives.  Everything I have said is 100% accurate and easily to back with evidence.
  
  
  -There has been NO written offer by the dealer to buy back the unit and refund my money or exchange for a new similar model.  It was verbally discussed when dropped off, but since then nothing offered in writing and dealer has stated it's an issue with Thor.
  
  

  - The dealer did one of two things.  They either knew the delamination and water leak had been occurring and tried to sell the unit to get it off their books and release liability or they were completely negligent on maintaining the coach while in their possession.  Photos and videos clearly show how bad the roof and seals are.  There is no other explanation.  If they have years of experience and inspections are always performed, how could they miss such an obvious and detrimental issue prior to delivering the unit? 

  
  - Please see attached communication between myself and ******* about bringing the motorhome back.  I have all Commnication stating that it was my intent to bring the motorhome back as soon as the weather over they snowy pass permitted.  The dealers ****** that they had no idea it was going to brought back is completely false as seen in the emails and communication. 
  
  
  -I have multiple sources that have confirmed major damage and major repairs.  These sources include a highly qualified ** mechanic and business owner with years of experience and insurance adjuster with 20+ years of experience in water damaged vehicles.  To do a "correct" job for water soaked walls to prevent any future damage is much more involved than something simple.   

   

  -Both the dealer and manufacture are pushing it as "warranty" as this forces me to keep the unit and saves them from taking a loss and having to resale as a second owned repaired unit.  It is beneficial only for them and a giant risk for myself.  Many long term problems could arise from this.  

  
  -The manufacture Thor's offer is not reasonable.  Two months free payments hardly even covers the depreciation alone on this vehicle.  That wouldn't even include loss of use, insurance payments, and having a damaged repaired unit instead of something brand new.  Two months extended warranty also a poor offer.  The unit has been siting now for almost a month and would be months to repair.  Of course the warranty shouldn't start until it was back in my hands.  The manufactures offer does little for benefitting me in my situation.  It is understandable to turn this offer down. 

  
  - The dealers claim that "No drop in value" that is not true.  The next buyer would certainly ask for pervious history of the coach and any previous damage repairs.  I would have to be dishonest and lie in that person.  I would not do that to someone else.  They would have to know and the perceived value for anything damaged and repaired is always substantially less.  Many buyers would walk away just knowing it had previous water damage as water damage is known to be the absolute worst thing for **'s.  For this dealer to even mention that there is no change in title says right there makes you question the integrity of this dealer.  

  
  - The dealer did put a Dehumidifier inside the unit, however, this does not get into wall crevices and between floors.  A dehumidifier will pull from large areas, but that doesn't mean trapped water sealed between vacuum bonded walls are all of a sudden "dry" and safe from mold and rot.  Please see images attached of what looks like mold already in the window developing. This is not just a simple lets put a dehumidier in and call it good type remedy. 
  
  
  - The dealer says the delamination is speculation of where it is coming from.  Although the unit has not been opened up, this is very easily recognizable that the compromised roof seal just inches above the spot of delamination would make complete sense of how water intrusion has occurred and cause for delamination.  The water is leaking inches below the roof seal, straight down the wall onto the window as seen in pictures.  Again, several other reputable sources have also agreed this would easily be the spot of failure.  
  
  -The sales person ********************* (son of one of the owners) had told me during the ** show, the unit he gave me the price quote was only on this one and this is the one that had the sale price.  
  
  -I have others Beaver customers who have reached out to me that have also had water leak issues on their brand new Thor 2022 units as well.  I will not post names without permission, but I will post initials of one which the dealer is aware of.  M.M.  This customer had leaks above both sides of his windows in same areas and saw these on their very first night as well,  when they stayed at the dealers lot.  The dealer noted these issues and this is on record.  This owner also believes the same thing happened to him as me; that these **'s sat untouched, unmaintained, and maybe quality of material and installation didn't help the issue, but the dealer is liable for neglecting required maintenance. 
  
  I have been patient with both Beaver Motorcoach and Thor Motorcoach.   I was giving them a reasonable a month to get a resolution back to me that was fair.  I was never hostile or furiously demanding at any time.  I made them aware on day 2 of the leak and on day 3 that these damages happened prior to me buying the unit and I feel they are not my responsibility, therefore, I unfortunately would be returning the unit.  I stated many times that I hope we can resolve this on our own and i'd be happy to purchase again from them.  My request was normal for any new owner in my situation.  I'd like either a refund of my money or this unit be exchanged for a similar motorhome.  This is not an unreasonable request or "demand".  I was told this coach was in excellent condition and this dealer maintained their units better than most dealers.  Maybe they had in the past with others, however, this is not my experience.  I bought or thought I was buying a brand new never used unit.  Not a water damaged, delaminating, ** that needs significant repairs before I can even use it once.  This is not acceptable to me or anyone buying something new. Again, I have not even used the unit and on day 2 of ownership a major water leak.  If the dealer and manufacture truly care and stand behind their products and customers, they should have no problem taking this back and refunding or getting me into a new **.  They have the opportunity to SHOW how much they truly care and that they will actually stand behind their products and customers and not just talk about it online, but do opposite in real life.  
  
  
  
  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***********************

  

  Business response

  04/24/2023

  As was stated previously our primary goal is to provide quality products and services to our valued customers. We do perform an inspection of our inventoried units upon arrival and upon the sale with an emphasis on safety, livability and functionality. 
  

  Our process is intended to identify and address issues before the unit leaves our showroom. We have detailed records of this process as it applied to this unit. 
  We believe this process is consistently executed and an effective means of ensuring a high degree of quality. Is it perfect; of course not there are a great many components and moving parts involved. As well as a multitude of environmental conditions that cannot and would not be duplicated in the inspection process. This is the intent and purpose of the vehicles warranty , to address issues as they arise after sale and within the warranty period. 
  

  At no point during our possession of the unit; through multiple inspections, were there any indications or notations of water intrusion.

  There was no malice or negligence involved in this transaction. Any issues present with the unit existed without our knowledge and were not apparent upon inspection. 
  

  In instances where repairs are necessary our aim is to rectify deficiencies as quickly and efficiently as possible with authorization by both the customer and the manufacturer in accordance with manufacturer guidelines and applicable state laws and statutes. 
  

  We have exercised no repairs or inspections at this point as we have not received consent from the end user. We have contacted the manufacturer for assistance. You indicated your intent was to be relieved of ownership; it is our policy and the policy of TMC when legal action is to be taken on the part of the consumer the manufacturer and its representatives take responsibility for negotiating a resolution. 
  

  In this situation we are obligated to participate in the resolution to the degree the manufacturer recommends as any post sale resolution within the warranty period is specific in nature and requires pre-authorization.

  Your rejection of all standing offers of resolution are understood, ********** Coach or representatives of ********** Coach will be your point of contact moving forward due to your written intent to proceed through legal remedies.   

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩